tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2866425980044378662.post1274356461604055756..comments2011-06-30T14:09:03.824-04:00Comments on Silencing the Stones: Study of the LDS Church - 2.4 The Book of Mormon - The Basic StoryKayehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16037837655750384138noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2866425980044378662.post-14424991383163127852008-10-30T11:30:00.000-04:002008-10-30T11:30:00.000-04:00Okay, Alma--sorry for the delay, but family life k...Okay, Alma--sorry for the delay, but family life keeps one busy, you know. <BR/><BR/>Now...to reply to the answers you gave to the questions in my post: <BR/><BR/>1.) I know there are holes in ships but I was simply stating a simplistic view of one of the problems with the barges. The holes in them were an afterthought...commanded only after the soon-to-be passengers pointed out that there would not be air or light. That in itself does not speak of an all-knowing God to me. I am shocked that these submarine type vessels had no windows or view of the outside but were meant to be steered. The vessels all landed together in the new country despite being tossed about, submerged, and blown about by furious winds. How in the world did one fit food and water on 8 barges no larger than a tree for all of the passengers, including water? There are others, but I will not use this entire comment to go over them...<BR/>2.) Noah and his family had a much larger ship that floated atop the water the entire flood. Never did they need to submerge and it floated...not was steered. The problems of the barges is not seen in the design of ark. So no, I don't have the same problem with the Biblical account of Noah.<BR/>3.) You are right that there is speculation among LDS scholars as to the location of the Cumorah of the Book of Mormon. As it seems implausible that it be in New York, they have started looking elsewhere for it. Have they found it? It seems that early LDS teachers thought that Cumorah was in New York. Orson Pratt stated that it was the same Cumorah where Joseph Smith found the plates several times(Journal of Disclosures v14 p331; v17 p 24; v20 p 62; v22 p224), as did prophets of the LDS chuch (President Anthony W. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1928-Morning Session; Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation , Vol.3, Bookcraft, 1956, p.232-43) as well as other publications (Articles of Faith , chapter 14; The Latter-day Saints' Messenger and Advocate, Vol.2, No.2, p.221; Ensign Nov. 1975 pg. 35; and Studies of the Book of Mormon, p.277). These can all be seen <A HREF="http://www.mazeministry.com/frontpage/dna/cumorah/cumorah.htm" REL="nofollow">here</A>. <BR/>4.) If the hill in NY is not the one in the BoM, this question could easily rest. However, it seems that in the past, many leaders of the church (including Prophets) noted that it was. <BR/>5.) Here's the difference between the Bible and the BoM that I haven't been able to effectively communicate with LDS members...the Bible is translated by human translators and if a group of people are translating the Bible as a whole, a quote in one spot will be translated the same way in another. These mistranslations have been found and corrected in versions since the mistakes were made by men who did not claim that they were more than humble servants of God with their own fallacies. However, when two separate books were translated by two separates people (or groups of people), and one of them claims that the translation could not continue until every word was even spelled correctly, I have a problem with the fact that one of them has errors. It seems interesting that two separate people mistranslated something the exact same way in totally different circumstances. The laws of chance don't really allow for that. <BR/>6.) You are correct in the fact that I used the incorrect quoting of this passage. The one I meant to point out was not Jesus' sermon in 3 Nephi, but Nephi's words in 1 Nephi, which was supposedly written about 600 BC. I have corrected the blog post and you are welcome to visit it now and reread my argument. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again for visiting and I welcome any further discussion/rebuttal that you or anyone else would like to add.Kayehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16037837655750384138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2866425980044378662.post-31821727621537875772008-10-29T16:45:00.000-04:002008-10-29T16:45:00.000-04:00Alma--Thank you for reading and for providing conv...Alma--<BR/><BR/>Thank you for reading and for providing conversation in the comments. I welcome the commentary from all views. <BR/><BR/>The "destroyed by the hand of the Lord" is from Ether 1:1 which states that the Jaredites were destroyed by the hand of the Lord and therefore I applied it to Shiz, since he was one of those people. It therefore is a quote from the BoM, just not from the battle scene, although it does indicate that it applies to the Jaredites as a people. <BR/><BR/>You are right that the "all of the people of the earth" is not an exact quote and that is my fault entirely. The actual quote is from Genesis 11:9 which does say, "...because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth...". So yes, it was a misquote, but yes, it does indicate that it happened worldwide with a literal reading of the scripture. <BR/><BR/>In Matthew 15:24, Jesus instructed his disciples to find the lost Jews...and you are right in defending the LDS belief that the inhabitants of the Americas in the BoM were descendants of the Israelites. The disciples obeyed Jesus' command by taking the message to the lost Jews of their surrounding cities. There is no indication given that any of the disciples obeyed Jesus by coming to the Americas to speak with the Book of Mormon peoples. <BR/><BR/>I will stop here for a little while, as it is time for me to pick up my son from school. I will continue this discussion either later tonight (if possible) or tomorrow. Please be sure to return for my continued responses.Kayehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16037837655750384138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2866425980044378662.post-18101609625540712262008-10-29T15:15:00.000-04:002008-10-29T15:15:00.000-04:00Kaye,I suspect from the comments you’ve made that ...Kaye,<BR/><BR/>I suspect from the comments you’ve made that you haven’t read the Book of Mormon—and have quoted from a secondary source. I think that’s why you’ve placed “destroyed by the hand of the Lord” in quotes referring to Shiz-- when the Book of Mormon never provides those words referring to Shiz’s death. You’ll surely be ahead of the game if what you place in quotations really is a quotation.<BR/><BR/>Similarly, you claim that “all of the people of the earth” (in quotes) were confounded—yet, I can’t find a single Bible translation with that phrase. Do you understand this passage to teach that every single person on the earth began to speak a new language with no exceptions? I don’t that the text demands such a narrow interpretation. <BR/><BR/>Your paragraph on “lost sheep” is a bit unclear. Who are the “they” you are referring to—LDS people or the people of the Book of Mormon? If your claim that Matthew 15:24 excludes the people of the Book of Mormon, you should realize that they (Nephites and Lamanites) were not Gentiles but actually Israelites; consequently, there would have been no reason not for them to be taught by Christ.<BR/><BR/>Suggestions for your questions:<BR/><BR/>1. The answer to place a hole in the top and bottom was to solve a ventilation problem. It would hardly solve the problem if the hole were below the water line would it? Take a look at any ship and you’ll see that there are places in the bottom portion of a boat that are well above the water line.<BR/>2. What makes you think it would have been entirely enclosed for the duration of the voyage? You realize that Noah and he family were enclosed with thousands of animals for six months. Do you have the same criticism of the Bible?<BR/>3. There isn’t anything in the text of the Book of Mormon that requires the account to have occurred in the vicinity of New York. <BR/>4. See number 3 above.<BR/>5. Did you know that an angel from heaven misquoted the Old Testament in speaking to John—by using the same text as the existing Septuagint? If angels can use existing translations, why can’t Joseph Smith?<BR/>6. Actually, the Book of Mormon account takes place <B>a year</B> following the resurrection while Peter’s sermon was only 50 days following the resurrection.Alma Allredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11724192086426186057noreply@blogger.com